程昱凡专访Stefan Kolle：创造力就是我们的生意

Kolle Rebbe办公室的窗户。

作为德国获奖最多的创意代理商之一的 Kolle Rebbe，在创始人以及创意执行长Stefan Kolle的率领下，10多年来不断制作着伟大的作品。这篇访谈将让您了解他们的工作方式以及一些关于德国广告的讯息。

As one of the most awarded agencies in Germany, Kolle Rebbe Hamburg still delivers on its promise to produce mind-blowing work as it did a decade ago under the stewardship of Stefan Kolle, its founder & chief creative officer.
The interview lets you know how they work and why it works, as well as something about German advertising.

作为中国最具国际视野的创意人，程昱凡拥有在中国以及欧洲顶尖代理商的工作经验。他目前正在忙于他个人的采访项目：访谈一些在国际上声誉卓著的创意总监，以帮助中国创意人更多了解国外的创意文化以及思考方式。而这样的事情相信是对中国广告的发展有积极意义的。

Cheng Yufan is an international copy base creative, whose agency experience spanned different continents, Ogilvy China, Marcel Republique Paris, to name but a few.
He’s currently working on a project to interview some of the most influential folks in the industry, in order to share their thoughts, experiences with Chinese creatives, and he believes it’s healthy for the growth of Chinese advertising.

——原文为英文采访，为了方便国内读者阅读，我们特别邀请昱凡把本文翻译成中文，在广告门刊登双语稿。

程昱凡：作为开场白，请介绍您以及您的公司。
Cheng Yufan ：As a typical question to start an interview, could you please give us a brief introduction to you and your agency?

Stefan：我叫Stefan Kolle，负责Kolle Rebbe的创意事务，我已经在这个行业工作超过20年，在这之前，我就学于柏林艺术大学。当时我计划与和室友Stephan Rebbe一起发展，不过在完成学业之后我们各自发展了，好在1994年，我们终于成立我们自己的广告公司，最初的客户包括高卢烟和迪斯尼。1997年我们抱回了第一座嘎纳金狮而那也是我们的一个重要里程碑，从此，我们开始快速成长。时至今日，我们有超过180位员工为Google， Youtube, 大众，奥林巴斯以及Nike等客户服务。
Stefan：My name is Stefan Kolle, I’m the head of the creative department at Kolle Rebbe advertising and have been working in advertising for more than 20 years. Before that I studied at the Hochschule der Künste (University of the Arts) in Berlin. At the time, I was planning to move together with my friend Stephan Rebbe in a flat share. However, after our studies, we went our separate ways first. But in 1994, we finally set up our own agency. Our first accounts were Gauloises Cigarettes and Walt Disney. An important milestone was winning our first Cannes Lion in 1997. Since then, we have been growing continuously. Today more than 180 colleagues work for clients like Google and YouTube, the Volkswagen Group, Olympus or Nike.

   他就是Stefan Kolle。

程昱凡：据我所知，德国代理商只在欧洲地区扩张，即便那些成立很久的代理商，如 Springer & Jacoby，Jung von Matt等等，也仅仅只是在欧洲内部发展自己的网络，这是为什么呢？
Cheng Yufan ：As far as I know, German agencies don’t expand outside Europe, even long-established shops, such as Springer & Jacoby, Jung von Matt etc. have only expanded their networks within the borders of Europe. Why is that?

Stefan：尽管欧洲国家正在透过欧共体这个组织快速成长为一个整体，你还是不能忽视这些国家之间的文化差异，要建立一个有运作能力的网络，你必须掌握不同的知识技能，运用大量的直觉，尤为重要的是，大把的精力，”你要知道，意大利很不同” 这是在泛欧洲会议中最常常会听到的话语之一，这正是我认为的原因所在：即便在欧洲要建立起一个能充分运作的网络也非易事。
Stefan：Although Europe is becoming an increasingly homogenous entity through the EU, you simply cannot underestimate how many different cultures exist side by side here. To establish a functioning network, you need a lot of know-how, plenty of intuition and, above all, bundles of energy. “You know, Italy is different.” That’s one of the most frequently heard quotes in pan-European meetings. And I think that’s the core reason: building up a functioning network in Europe is just very tricky.

程昱凡：在去年的嘎纳广告奖上，德国广告公司一举夺得54只狮子，比英国还多5只，您认为在现如今的世界广告舞台上，德国已经拥有如同英国或者美国一样的举足轻重的地位了吗？
Cheng Yufan ：At last year’s Cannes Advertising Festival, German agencies walked away with 54 lions in total, 5 more than the UK. Do you think Germany is now finally a major player in the world of advertising today, like the UK or the United States?

Stefan：这其实有点类似足球赛，你常常看到象巴赛罗纳和曼联这样的球队在冠军杯的决赛中相遇，而谁又常常赢得世界杯？那就是巴西。但拜仁慕尼黑和德国也分别都是有力的竞争者。
当谈论到投寄作品参加广告奖项，德国绝对不逊色任何国家，但是真正伟大的，以及 ”真实的” 作品依然来自英国和美国。
Stefan：It’s a little bit like football. You’ll always see teams like Barcelona and Manchester United playing against each other in the finals of the Champions League, and who always wins the world cup? Brazil. But Bayern Munich and Germany are also good contenders. And we’re definitely at the top of the league when it comes to submitting creative work specially done for festivals to festivals. But, the truly great and, above all, “real” work still gets done in England and America.

程昱凡：您提到了 “真实的” 作品，那么请问您怎么看待那些只为奖项而做的广告作品？
Cheng Yufan ：You said “real” work, so how do you think of the creation that’s specifically done for award show?

Stefan：这就如同时装发布会，所展示的时装几乎所有人都没有勇气穿到大街上去，所以每一个展示会都有相类似的部分，这只是为了激励创作并且给人们一个机会向世界展示他们的才能。
Stefan：Like every fashion show has its creations hardly anyone would dare to wear offside the catwalk every festival has it’s creative skating exhibition and that’s ok. It’s about inspiring work and it gives you the opportunities to show the world what you are capable of.

程昱凡：2年前Kolle Rebbe赢得了一支崇高的D&AD平面类别的黑色铅笔，而在那一届的比赛中，D&AD仅仅颁出2支黑色铅笔，有趣的是，另一支给了R/GA的一则数码作品，您认为这是否传达出了一个讯息，就是在创新媒体被广泛运用的今天，传统媒体依然重要？
Cheng Yufan ：Kolle Rebbe was awarded the most-coveted “Black Pencil” at the D&AD 2 years ago in the print category. That year D&AD only handed out 2 black pencils; it’s interesting that the other one went to R/GA for its non-traditional digital work. Do you think there was a message in that, in the sense that traditional media is still important, despite the vast growth in the use of innovative media?

Stefan：25年以前，有一首歌曲名为 “Video killed the radio star”（电视使广播明星消失）。具有讽刺意味的是与当时相比，现如今广播甚至变得更强大，更富有创新以及令人激动。所有的一切都源于互联网，印刷媒体并不会很快消亡，海报更具有互联网所缺乏的力量，我们更多的不是去探究媒体的类别，而是考虑什么样的点子最为强大。
Stefan：25 years ago, there was a song called “Video killed the radio star”. One of the ironics is that radio today has almost become stronger, more innovative and exciting than it was back then. And all because of the internet. Print media won’t go extinct that quickly, and posters have many strengths where the internet just can’t keep up. We shouldn’t be looking at media forms as much, but should be thinking about which ideas are strongest.

程昱凡：那您能否透露你们的创意人员如何构思出这个获得黑铅笔的点子？
Cheng Yufan ：Could you tell us how did the creatives come up with the black pencil idea?

Stefan：首先我们的创意团队选择摆脱传统的NGO广告路子，就是以那些恐怖的典型的画面来展现第三世界，其次，我们的创作人员仔细观察他们周遭的一切，他们充分让自己的内心敞开。这套作品的点子里的元素是来自真实生活的，非洲墙壁上的绘画，布满弹孔的墙壁等等。而最直观的，让这套作品如此成功的原因，那就是因为插画师Eva Salzmann的出色执行。
Stefan：The most important thing was that they chose not to approach the NGO topic with the all-too typical, horrific images we’re always being shown from the Third World. The second most important aspect was that they took a close look at their surroundings. They kept their eyes and ears open. The motifs that went into the idea are real-life motifs: African wall paintings and bullet hole ridden walls. What obviously made the idea such a success, as well, was the way it was beautifully executed by the illustrator Eva Salzmann.

  Kolle Rebbe赢得了D&AD黑色铅笔的作品。

程昱凡：那么把这套作品提给客户是不是很困难？
Cheng Yufan ：Was it hard to sell the campaign to the client?

Stefan：一点都不。这个点子非常强，它不仅感染了评审，也包括客户。
Stefan：Not at all. The idea was obviously so strong it didn’t just impress juries, but clients as well.

程昱凡：德国近来在奖项上的表现一直相当好，然而，就如我们所注意到的，德国在广告影片类别的表现却不那么出色，为什么？
Cheng Yufan ：Germany is doing quite well these days at Cannes, D&AD etc. However, what you do notice is that German agencies seldom produce great film work. How come?

Stefan：这可能与电影业在美国以及英国的影响力和规模要大于德国有关，德国绝大多数的电视节目只是一味地模仿美国和英国的节目，比如，The Office 和 Curb your enthusiasm等。可能在我们的骨子里已经不再有电影文化这回事。不过不管怎么说，来自汉堡Nordpol+的 “The power of the wind” 在去年嘎纳广告奖上差一点拿下影片类全场大奖， 而且我们也曾在这个类别赢得过金，银，铜的狮子。
Stefan：That may have to do with the fact that the film industry is larger and far more influential in America and England than it is in Germany. Most TV-shows produced in Germany are nothing more than feeble imitations of English and American originals, e.g. The Office or Curb Your Enthusiasm. Maybe we just don’t have film culture in our genes anymore in Germany. Nevertheless, Nordpol almost won the Cannes Grand Prix last year with “The Power Of Wind”, and it isn’t as if we’ve never taken home Gold, Silver and Bronze Lions in the category.

程昱凡：我们能为品牌取得成功做些什么？
Cheng Yufan ：What can be done to achieve success for brand?

Stefan：品牌成功的基础首先依赖它的概念。如今让产品差别化代价太高昂，所以在产品发展的过程中就运用更多创造力比之后在传播手段上使它差异化则更为合理。
Stefan：The basis for the success of a brand product first depends on its concept. Differentiating products is so expensive nowadays that it makes more sense to apply more creativity in the development of a product than trying to differentiate it later on in the communicative measures.

程昱凡：这不是超越了广告代理商所应做的事情了吗？
Cheng Yufan ：But doesn’t that exceed what an advertising agency is supposed to do?

Stefan：我们身处一个提供点子服务的行业，最糟糕的情形就是一个点子只能适用于一个跨页广告或者1支20秒的电视广告。不过这却时常发生。
Stefan：We work in a service business for ideas. The worst case scenario is if an idea is only good enough for a double-page spread and a 20-second ad. But this is still all too often the case.

程昱凡：现代的广告会是什么样子？
Cheng Yufan ：What could modern advertising look like?

Stefan：我们在2008欧洲杯赛时候，利用YouTube用户上传的小片断为我们的客户YouTube制
作了一部50分钟的影片。另一个例子就是我们曾为Bionade在50个不同的地点制作了50块不同的户外看板广告。这说明了我们必须根据信息而不是媒体来思考。
Stefan：We produced a 50-minute cinema release film for our client Youtube to coincide with the EURO 2008 Football Championship – using clips submitted by YouTube users. Or take, for example, our Bionade campaign with more than 50 different billboards – for different locations. It shows quite clearly that you have to think more in terms of messages instead of channels.

程昱凡：1年之前，Grey伦敦任命了一位来自非传统创意领域的ECD来掌管创意部，如果这样的任命来自类似CP+B这样的公司，想必不会令人感到诧异，然而这却发生在可能是最为传统的广告代理商之一的Grey，您如何看待这个现象？
Cheng Yufan ：More than one year ago, Grey London appointed its new ECD who was never considered a traditional creative director, although it isn’t quite surprising the appointment came about at the likes of CP+B, it still happened in one of the old-school ad agencies. How did you react to this news?

Stefan：是的，这确实很令人吃惊。不过这样的反应只是因为这是Grey，其实他们并不是非得显得落伍，毕竟不会有傻瓜在那里工作，而且不要想当然地认为一个象Grey那样的大型代理商不会为了自己的未来打算。所以，如果只是因为某人看起来老土就低估他是不可取的，这样的态度会阻碍我们。
Stefan：Yes, that did come as a big surprise. But it really just showed that just because it’s Grey, they don’t necessarily have to be dated in their approach. It’s not as if idiots work there, after all – and don’t think a huge steamer like Grey won’t be positioning itself for the future. In general, it’s never healthy to underestimate anybody, ever, just because they seem uncool. That sort of attitude can quite easily backfire on you.

程昱凡：现在很多大客户都把一些国际业务交给小型代理商负责而不是那些有庞大网络的国际公司，您是否认为一间小型的创意热店有能力经营这样的国际业务？
Cheng Yufan ：Lots of big clients gave their international business to small agencies, instead of mammoth networks. Do you really think a locally-based, small hotshop is capable of handling international business?

Stefan：呃… 我们负责奥林巴斯在30个国家的广告业务，所以，是啊，这是可行的。
Stefan：Well, we’re coordinating advertising for OLYMPUS in 30 countries. So, yes, it works.

程昱凡：创作通行国际市场的广告是否需要了解各地的文化？
Cheng Yufan ：Is it necessary to understand the local cultures to do international work?

Stefan：那是肯定的！广告始于语言。不要忘了，俄国的Lada Nova汽车在西班牙惨遭失败仅仅是因为 “no va” 在西班牙语中是 ”别开”。 不过，你必须小心别过分稀释了伟大的创意以致失去了它原本的力量－只因你作出了成百上千的妥协。
Stefan：Absolutely! It starts with the language. Don’t forget, Russia’s Lada Nova car was such a flop in Spain, because “No va” translated into Spanish means “Doesn’t Drive”. Nevertheless, you have to be careful you don’t water down excellent ideas so much that they lose their original strength – because you’re making hundreds of thousands of compromises.

程昱凡：Kolle Rebbe是一间创意导向的代理商，那您是如何在创意和生意之间保持平衡？
Cheng Yufan ：Kolle Rebbe is a creatively-led agency, how do you keep balance between business and creativity?

Stefan：创造力就是我们的生意。这也是我们的客户所期待的。
Stefan：Creativity is our business. And that’s exactly what our clients expect from us.

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程昱凡：您的理想客户是什么？
Cheng Yufan ：What’s your dream client?

Stefan：我们的每一个客户都是。我尤其喜欢为那些创业者依然为之在出力的企业工作，比如Google，YouTube以及Nike。这种精神的本身比利润率更强大。
Stefan：Everyone on our client list. I particularly like working for companies where the original entrepreneurs are still actively and passionately involved in their business. That’s still the case with big brands like Google, YouTube or Nike. This spirit itself is stronger than the spirit of the profit margin.

程昱凡：贵公司的哪件作品最让您感到骄傲？
Cheng Yufan ：What work done by your agency makes you most proud?

Stefan：为高卢烟创作的 ”Textfilm”，那件12年前的作品当初为我们赢得了第一座狮子。这个点子就算在今天依然有效。
Stefan：The “Textfilm” for Gauloises, which won us our first Lion in Cannes 12 years ago. It still works to this day.

程昱凡：我前段时间读到了一篇文章说柏林将成为欧洲新的创意之都。我们都知道伦敦有写作伟大广告的悠久传统，而阿姆斯特丹以包容性和多元文化著称，那么柏林拥有什么？
Cheng Yufan ：Some time ago I read an article that said Berlin would be the new creative capital of Europe. We know London has a long history of writing great ad copy, Amsterdam is renowned for its open-minded and multi-cultural attitude; so, what does Berlin have that would be able to make it happen?

Stefan：柏林低廉的物价！公寓租金很便宜，每个人都能负担得起在此的生活费用。
而这一点吸引了大量的创意人才，音乐人，画家，作家，电影人前来柏林生活。除此之外，在地缘特点上柏林位于欧洲正中心，使得东、西两种文化的在柏林交融，这些因素创造出了一个独特的环境氛围。
Stefan：Berlin’s cheap! Flats don’t cast much, life is affordable for everybody. And that obviously attracts lots of creatives, musicians, painters, architects, writers, film makers. Apart from that, with its geographic right in the heart of Europe, Berlin is a melting pot of western and eastern culture. These ingredients have added up to create a climate that is unique in Germany.

程昱凡：去年Kolle Rebbe在北京为一个大众的项目工作，能否向我们描述一下这项工作的内容？
Cheng Yufan ：Last year, Kolle Rebbe worked on a VW project in Beijing. Could you give us an outline of that project?

Stefan：2年前我们基于其主张 “驾驶的想法”为大众公司创作了一套企业形象广告。这套广告后来调整一下了并沿用于北京奥运会，因为大众公司是奥运会的主要赞助商。我们参与了企业展区的部分设计并使用了之前平面广告的主题：其视觉就是一个巨大的用稻草做成的为汽车加油用的喷嘴，这个点子就是为了介绍SunFuel，一种全新的由大众公司研发的生物燃料。
Stefan：Two years ago we developed a corporate campaign for Volkswagen based on the claim “Driving Ideas.” The campaign was adapted and continued at the Olympic Games in Beijing, where VW was present as a major sponsor. We designed part of the corporate pavilion and used a motif from the print campaign. What you saw was a huge petrol pump nozzle completely made out of straw. The idea behind the visual was to introduce SunFuel, a new form of bio-fuel Volkswagen helped develop.

   kolle Rebbe为北京奥运会期间，大众汽车创作的广告。

   北京奥运村里，大众汽车展馆里的kelle rebbe作品。

程昱凡：对于中国广告，您了解多少？
Cheng Yufan ：What do you know about China’s advertising industry?

Stefan：正如许多别的领域一样，中国的广告业也正在突飞猛进，我曾经去过中国两次，和许多中国的同行沟通过，同时也认识了越来越多在国际广告奖项中担任评委的中国人，无论如何，这都是非常有趣的经历。我们也不断加大和一间中国本土公司的合作。在1月份，我们派出了一名同事去北京工作了2周，作为交换，一名中国美术指导也将前来汉堡。所有事情的发展让我很兴奋。
Stefan：As in many other areas, China is making huge progress in advertising. I’ve been there twice, talked to lots of colleagues who have worked or taught in China, and am also getting to know more and more Chinese advertisers in juries at international competitions. Quite an interesting experience, by all means! We’re also scaling up our cooperation with a China’s local agency, our partner from thenetworkone. In January, we sent one of our colleagues to Beijing for a couple of weeks. In exchange, we’re welcoming a Chinese art director in Hamburg soon. I’m very excited about how things are developing.

程昱凡：如果有合适的机会，您是否会考虑在中国设立办公室？
Cheng Yufan ：When the right time comes, do you think you might set up shop in China?

Stefan：为什么不呢？如果我了解什么事情了，我就不会说 ”不”。
Stefan：Why not? If there’s thing I’ve learnt then it’s never to say no.

程昱凡：您一般在空余时间干点什么？
Cheng Yufan ：What do you do when you’re not working?

Stefan：我和我的家人在一起－大多数时候我们待在靠近水的地方。这让人放松的同时也启发心智。除此之外，我喜爱旅行，因为这不仅有助于放松，也让人振奋。
Stefan：I spend time with my family – mostly near the water. It’s relaxing and inspiring at the same time. Other than that, I love travelling – that too, because it’s just as relaxing as it is inspiring.

程昱凡：您是如何保持创造力的？
Cheng Yufan ：How do you stay creative?

Stefan：喜好刨根问底并且难以取悦。
Stefan：inquisitive and hard to please.

下一期的被访谈者是来自可能是这个世界上最前卫牛X的荷兰代理商Kessels Kramer的创意总监Dave Bell。
The next interview is with Dave Bell, founder and creative director at Kessels Kramer Amsterdam, probably the trippiest agency in the world.

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